43 Comments

"Ideally, police wouldn’t carry guns at all, but the proliferation of firearms in the United States makes implementing such a policy very difficult."

It's also very difficult for dogs to speak English and pigs to fly.

As Bernie said, there is NO CITY ON EARTH without police. There has never been a society since the dawn of civilization that didn't maintain order with the credible threat of violence. The fact that anyone takes this discussion seriously for one second is honestly a travesty.

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“ Ultimately, I think the Norwegian model is the most successful: well-funded, genuinely rehabilitative facilities that focus on making prisoners, upon release, functioning members of society should be the norm.”

The U.S. is a very different place from Norway. Norway does not have the levels of crime the U.S. does. Nor does it have a permanent multi-generational underclass that celebrates criminal culture. Until those issues are fully addressed by our society, a retributional model of prison is more appropriate than a rehabilitative model.

The liberal “soft on crime” approach has led to deteriorating levels of safety in major cities across the U.S. When a felon-in-possession charge is given a six-month home confinement by the local progressive DA, when the Feds will ask for ten years, is demonstrative of liberal policies on crime.

As decades of criminology show, most

criminals do not become “functioning members of society” upon release. How could they if they never had the normative cultural values in the first place?

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Prison and police abolitionists often resort to motte-and-bailey tactics. They’ll say “abolish all prisons, let everyone free”, but when you actually press them on the subject, they’ll explain how it’s actually not abolishing prisons now, but rather working toward abolition.

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This movement is the first thing in about 20 years of following politics that I genuinely don’t understand. Obviously if you are going to have laws you need some mechanism for law enforcement. So it must be a political tactic but then they keep insisting no we literally want to abolish the police. And if it’s a tactic then it’s not a very good one because it just makes them look like crazy people

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"Ideally, police wouldn’t carry guns at all, but the proliferation of firearms in the United States makes implementing such a policy very difficult."

In the United States? Do you mean NYC? Why are we worrying about northern idaho, Vermont, New Hampshire or Texas, states with constitutional carry or close to it, and just say NYC? That was an odd bit of phraseology.

Is it because NYC has ultra strict gun control, and there’s still ‘gun violence’?

To state that NYC cops need to carry firearms because of the “proliferation of firearms in the United States” is poor wording at best, disingenuous at worst.

Other than that, you’ve the best ear for nyc politics and its shenanigans.

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The fundamental thing here is that no one thinks defund is going to happen, most certainly the activists making it a litmus test. It's Potemkin politics; there is no there there.

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Something I’ve noticed is living in wealthy Brooklyn neighborhoods provides a warped perception of what it means to live in NYC. Relative to the wealthier parts of Manhattan, these Brooklyn areas are cleaner/provide an ability to have a lower fear of crime as the people around you are generally living in the area (perhaps due to minimal centers providing social services?)

If you live in one of these neighborhoods and read about increases in crime in NYC it’s easy to write it off and say: “What do we need police for? New York isn’t nearly as bad as it’s made out to be”. It’s easy to become an advocate for defunding the police while not understanding why those in other boroughs are not.

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Progressives seem not to understand that police officers are human beings who respond to incentives, and that the police as an organization also responds to incentives. Reform involves re-casting the incentives to encourage good behavior and active policing, but the incentives have all gone the other way, towards motivating cops to stand down, with very apparent consequences in day to day life - the locked up shelves, the epidemic of turnstile jumping, the reckless driving, the return of transgression on the subways - I could go on).

In NYC, the police have defunded themselves: like other urban departments, the NYPD is hundreds of officers down from authorized staffing. Retiring cops cite the feeling that the public does not have their back, that we no longer want them to actually police the city, and that this destroys the satisfaction of the job that makes the risks worth taking. The rest of them are going back to the hardly-working 90's, knowing that society apparently approves the practice of nullifying their work by letting repeat criminals go as soon as they are brought in. Those are some pretty powerful incentives. As a society we should be paying attention to this, and mid-course correcting. But we aren't.

It is extremely clear to me, as an ordinary citizen, that the progressive caucus in Albany has chosen to prioritize the interests of some abstract pity object called "social justice" over the most basic security needs of the general public. It explains why they will not - cannot - admit to themselves that the cluster of laws called "bail reform" is janky legislation that is unpopular for the reason that it is bad policy and should be scrapped. They have given every excuse under the sun (it's Covid, it's not as bad as the 90's, opponents can't prove it's not good, etc.) Currently the policy is to refuse to talk to reporters for reporting the actual news. But, they have the unaccountable power to ignore this. It is their legacy.

It's a bad track record, here as in other areas (housing, for one). So why should anyone listen to them about anything on this subject?

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Defund was always a bad way to articulate what I think activists meant to say. I like what you have emphasized and that is demilitarization of various aspects of policing. That said, we have so many social and economic issues which were amplified by Covid measures and lockdowns that any discussion about defunding sounds crazy to most people. Hoping that thoughtful and substantive conversations can be had to identify each subset of criminal issues and identify solutions that make sense. At this moment I fear that we are not able to address these issues rationally. Everyone on all sides needs to take down the rhetoric and prepare for some incredibly challenging next few years. We must keep in mind that our first responsibility is to the law abiding citizens who deserve to have safe streets and living conditions. Police reform where needed should be the focus when it comes to excessive force - not defunding. And lastly we must address the failures of closing psychiatric institutions without an infrastructure to cope with people who are dangerous. And that’s going to cost a fortune.

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fwiw nyc's budget is about 100 billion, not 200 billion.

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There are societies that live without murder, rape, or crime!!- ever heard of the people of the Kalahari in Africa? Such activity is non-existent! The question is who’s really primitive ?

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Policemen in this country is like a bad marriage-- can’t live with them and can’t live without!! That sums it up. !!

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Pretty straw man stuff since the progressive caucus official position doesn’t come close to abolition or even defund. Are there abolitionists on the left. Sure, but there nowhere close to a majority. The progressive caucus position seems to me quite reasonable. It’s only the headline writers that make it sound radical. Those who jumped ship because of it seem pretty timid

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My comment is that the police are ok but the union is too strong and prevents accountability. DSA mandates will make us a Republican city, and I definitely do not want to live through that again.

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